War of the Worldviews
This book is a debate between Deepak Chopra and Leonard Mlodinow. It isn't a line by line debate. They take turns writing chapters. So you could read just what Leonard wrote if you wanted.
In chapter one, Deepak seems to be arguing in favor of free will. Also in chapter one, Deepak seems to take the position that we don't know it all so we should remain open. Certainly he isn't claiming that unproven hypotheses are true. His example: the elephant story.
Leonard writes the next chapter. Both are addressing the question: What is reality? I find myself agreeing with both of them at times. Leonard is addressing the awesomeness of what our senses can experience.
Leonard states: "Deepak's belief that the universe is purposeful ...". On April 29th, we were talking about Marx and Hegel and their histrionics as we watched the Popper DVD. I think they were saying that history has a purpose. Popper disagreed. I must admit that Deepak saying that the universe has a purpose seems a little far fetched to me. I think I am with the existentialists: humans make their own purpose.
Below quote is from this link :
"Suppose we divide theories of the meaning of human life into the exogenous and the endogenous. According to the exogenous theories, existential meaning derives from a source external to the agent, whereas on endogenous theories, meaning and purpose are posited or projected by the agent. "
I totally agree with this statement that Leonard makes: "one must be careful when discussing scientific issues not to use terms loosely."
I liked this quote by Richard Feynman: "the first principle is that you must not fool yourself--and you are the easiest to fool."
I liked this statement by Leonard: "It is easy to convince oneself of dubious ideas if the arguments one uses to support those ideas are built around words with wrong, vague, or multiple meanings."
I wonder if religious people think that Deepak is doing a good job defending their worldview. He talks about the perfection of God; and the omniscient, omnipresent , omnipotent God. And then he says "the defeat of perfectionism seems totally justified...Spirituality therefore cannot get back into the game on religious terms. It has to add something new"
On page 57 Leonard says "A quick way to turn science into science fiction is to play with the meaning of its terms"
To be continued
Showing posts with label book club. Show all posts
Showing posts with label book club. Show all posts
Monday, April 30, 2012
Monday, February 27, 2012
Justice: What is the Right Thing to Do?
My book group is reading Michael Sandel's book 'Justice: What's the Right Thing to Do?'
Here are some quotes from the book with references to the Kindle location:
Page 7 ( loc 141) Much public support for price-gouging laws comes from something more visceral than welfare or freedom ... getting things they don't deserve. Outrage of this kind is anger at injustice
Page 8 (loc 161) It is also about virtue--about cultivating the attitudes and dispositions, the qualities of character, on which a good society depends ... is it dangerous to impose judgments about virtue through law?
Page 9 (loc 176) should law be neutral toward competing conceptions of virtue
Page 15 (loc 299) The American public's real objection to the bonuses--and the bailout--is not that they reward greed but that they rewarded failure
Page 19 (loc 359) To ask whether a society is just is to ask how it distributes things we prize--income and wealth, duties and rights, powers and opportunities, offices and honors.
to be continued
He is explaining Kant's categorical imperatives. To be a categorical imperative, it must meet three criteria:
1. Universal. In other words, I wouldn't object to someone else doing it to me
2. Humanity should not be treated merely as a means to an end
3.Treat people as rational beings worthy of respect
Here are some quotes from the book with references to the Kindle location:
Page 7 ( loc 141) Much public support for price-gouging laws comes from something more visceral than welfare or freedom ... getting things they don't deserve. Outrage of this kind is anger at injustice
Page 8 (loc 161) It is also about virtue--about cultivating the attitudes and dispositions, the qualities of character, on which a good society depends ... is it dangerous to impose judgments about virtue through law?
Page 9 (loc 176) should law be neutral toward competing conceptions of virtue
Page 15 (loc 299) The American public's real objection to the bonuses--and the bailout--is not that they reward greed but that they rewarded failure
Page 19 (loc 359) To ask whether a society is just is to ask how it distributes things we prize--income and wealth, duties and rights, powers and opportunities, offices and honors.
to be continued
He is explaining Kant's categorical imperatives. To be a categorical imperative, it must meet three criteria:
1. Universal. In other words, I wouldn't object to someone else doing it to me
2. Humanity should not be treated merely as a means to an end
3.Treat people as rational beings worthy of respect
Friday, February 17, 2012
Braintrust What Neuroscience Tells Us about Morality
I will post quotes from Patricia S. Churchland's book: Braintrust What Neuroscience Tells Us about Morality
Page 2 (loc 87) So what is it to be fair?
Page 2 (loc 93) It did seem likely that Aristotle, Hume, and Darwin were right: we are social by nature
Page 3 (loc 99) By drawing on ... we can now meaningful approach the question of where values come from.
Page 3 (loc 103) My aim here is to explain what is probably true about our social nature, and what that involves in terms of the neural platform
Page 4 (loc 125) dunce's error of going from an is to an ought, from facts to values
Page 5 (loc 141) dimwitted inferences between descriptions and prescriptions
Page 6 (loc 153) finding good solutions to social problems often requires much wisdom, goodwill, negotiation, historical knowledge, and intelligence
Page 6 (loc 161)the conclusion must deductively follow from the premises with no mere probability ... Assuming the premises are true, the conclusion must be true
Page 9 (loc 216) Values are, according to this hypothesis, more fundamental than rules.
Page 18 (loc 351) learning involves structural changes in the brain
Page 20 (loc 400) cultural evolution can happen much faster than biological evolution
Page 59 (loc 1018) Once certain practices become the norm, once they are seen to bring benefits and to circumvent troubles, once they are reinforced by social approval and disapproval, they do of course seem to reflect the only right way for things to be
Page 60 (loc 1036) Humans are learners extraordinaire, and imitators plus extraordinaire
Page 60- [lots of stuff about the benefits of touch]
Page 61 (loc 1065) Some humans are highly group directed and reputation sensitive, while others live contentedly on the fringe
Page 62 (loc 1069) dark side to sociality
Page 64 (loc 1093) market integration.. [what % of your food do you get directly from your own efforts]
Page 65 (loc 1111) Market integrated individuals are more likely to show trust in dealings with strangers than are hunter-gatherers
Page 68 (loc 1161) [she defines cooperation as she plans to use it ]
Page 71 (loc 1212) The main hypothesis of this book, that morality originates in the neurobiology of attachment and bonding ...
Page 72 onward [effect of OXT on cooperation ]
Page 81 (loc 1403) the problem of free-riding ... attenuated ... when the group is small
Page 82 (loc 1424) in the non-punishment condition ... contributions ... decreased ...
Page 83 (loc 1441) When the option of punishment became available, contributions immediately jumped and continued to increase
Page 84 (loc 1456) These studies suggest that anger is a powerful driver of canonical moral behavior, namely, the punishing of wrongdoers.
Page 89 (loc 1538) temperamentally, are Homo sapiens more like chimps or bonobos
page 105 (loc 1813) innateness sometimes impedes clarity
page 106 (loc 1833) vulnerability to propaganda, the willingness to go to war on a tide of jingoism, the nontrivial vairability in moral customs....
Page 111 (loc 1919) On these topics, instant intuitions may give answers that backfire, and fair-minded disagreement can persist for decades
page 114 (loc 1971) what behavioral traits were selected for in human evolution cannot be solved by a vivid imagination
page 119 (loc 2054) With greater predictive capacities come greater opportunities to manipulate, in both the social and physical domains
page 130 (loc 2239) From the persepective of evolution, learning has clear advantages in efficiency and flexibility over having it built in.
page 166 (loc 2840) Evaluation, as discussed, is rooted in the emotions and passions that are endemic to human nature, and in the social habits acquired through childhood.
page 167 (loc 2860) a great Souter quote
page 170 to page 172 --discusses the problems with the golden rule
page 192 (loc 3305) As argued in earlier chapters, given normal neural networks, the pain from being shunned and the pleasure of belonging, along with imitation of those we admire, give rise to powerful intuitions about the absolute rightness and wrongness of classes of behavior
page 203 (loc 3498) Hume realized that trust will not exist unless there is some sort of enforcement of the rules of the game
Page 2 (loc 87) So what is it to be fair?
Page 2 (loc 93) It did seem likely that Aristotle, Hume, and Darwin were right: we are social by nature
Page 3 (loc 99) By drawing on ... we can now meaningful approach the question of where values come from.
Page 3 (loc 103) My aim here is to explain what is probably true about our social nature, and what that involves in terms of the neural platform
Page 4 (loc 125) dunce's error of going from an is to an ought, from facts to values
Page 5 (loc 141) dimwitted inferences between descriptions and prescriptions
Page 6 (loc 153) finding good solutions to social problems often requires much wisdom, goodwill, negotiation, historical knowledge, and intelligence
Page 6 (loc 161)the conclusion must deductively follow from the premises with no mere probability ... Assuming the premises are true, the conclusion must be true
Page 9 (loc 216) Values are, according to this hypothesis, more fundamental than rules.
Page 18 (loc 351) learning involves structural changes in the brain
Page 20 (loc 400) cultural evolution can happen much faster than biological evolution
Page 59 (loc 1018) Once certain practices become the norm, once they are seen to bring benefits and to circumvent troubles, once they are reinforced by social approval and disapproval, they do of course seem to reflect the only right way for things to be
Page 60 (loc 1036) Humans are learners extraordinaire, and imitators plus extraordinaire
Page 60- [lots of stuff about the benefits of touch]
Page 61 (loc 1065) Some humans are highly group directed and reputation sensitive, while others live contentedly on the fringe
Page 62 (loc 1069) dark side to sociality
Page 64 (loc 1093) market integration.. [what % of your food do you get directly from your own efforts]
Page 65 (loc 1111) Market integrated individuals are more likely to show trust in dealings with strangers than are hunter-gatherers
Page 68 (loc 1161) [she defines cooperation as she plans to use it ]
Page 71 (loc 1212) The main hypothesis of this book, that morality originates in the neurobiology of attachment and bonding ...
Page 72 onward [effect of OXT on cooperation ]
Page 81 (loc 1403) the problem of free-riding ... attenuated ... when the group is small
Page 82 (loc 1424) in the non-punishment condition ... contributions ... decreased ...
Page 83 (loc 1441) When the option of punishment became available, contributions immediately jumped and continued to increase
Page 84 (loc 1456) These studies suggest that anger is a powerful driver of canonical moral behavior, namely, the punishing of wrongdoers.
Page 89 (loc 1538) temperamentally, are Homo sapiens more like chimps or bonobos
page 105 (loc 1813) innateness sometimes impedes clarity
page 106 (loc 1833) vulnerability to propaganda, the willingness to go to war on a tide of jingoism, the nontrivial vairability in moral customs....
Page 111 (loc 1919) On these topics, instant intuitions may give answers that backfire, and fair-minded disagreement can persist for decades
page 114 (loc 1971) what behavioral traits were selected for in human evolution cannot be solved by a vivid imagination
page 119 (loc 2054) With greater predictive capacities come greater opportunities to manipulate, in both the social and physical domains
page 130 (loc 2239) From the persepective of evolution, learning has clear advantages in efficiency and flexibility over having it built in.
page 166 (loc 2840) Evaluation, as discussed, is rooted in the emotions and passions that are endemic to human nature, and in the social habits acquired through childhood.
page 167 (loc 2860) a great Souter quote
page 170 to page 172 --discusses the problems with the golden rule
page 192 (loc 3305) As argued in earlier chapters, given normal neural networks, the pain from being shunned and the pleasure of belonging, along with imitation of those we admire, give rise to powerful intuitions about the absolute rightness and wrongness of classes of behavior
page 203 (loc 3498) Hume realized that trust will not exist unless there is some sort of enforcement of the rules of the game
Monday, January 30, 2012
Evolution of Morality by Richard Joyce
My book group is discussing three books on morality on Feb 26th. I just finished Mackie's book. See other blog post for my notes on that. Here are my notes from Richard Joyce's book:
Page 1 (loc 37) This book attempts to accomplish two tasks. The first is to address the question "Is human morality innate?"
Page 5 (loc 87) Sociobiology focuses on innate behavior, whereas evolutionary psychology focuses on the psychological mechanisms
Page 6(loc 106) human brain is an organ designed to deal with environmental variation par excellence, and that open-ended plasticity is a human forte
Page 8 (loc 144). So I think Stephen Jay Gould was dead wrong when he said "If we are programmed to be what we are, then those traits are ineluctable ...". Unless by programmed Gould just means something that cannot be changed ...
Page 13 (loc 203) I will outline several means by which helpful, cooperative traits may evolve.
Page 14 (loc 209) [he defines altruism as he intends to use the word]
Page 15 (loc 216) Some humans doubt whether any human actions are altruistic ...
Page 15 (loc 239) to confuse a person with her genes is as silly as confusing her with her lungs
Page 18 (loc 284) I am not claiming that a person's reasons must always be apparent to her, all I am saying is that they are not all ultimately concerned with genetic replication
Page 31 (loc 479) By introducing reputation into our understanding, we move away from standard reciprocal exchanges to what has been called "indirect reciprocity"
Page 37 (loc 569) Groups containing helpers will outperform groups containing fewer or no helpers
Page 48 (loc 731) All the empirical evidence shows that humans are often motivated by genuine regard for others
Page 50 (loc 758) Kant: that actions motivated by pro social emotions cannot be morally admirable
Page 51 (loc 768) ... moral sentiments ... prosocial emotions
Page 56 (loc 853) Yet this observation doesn't undermine the claim that there is a linguistic convention according to which "slut" expresses contempt.
Page 58 (loc 886) where does the practical clout of morality come from?
Page 62 (loc 948) I must confess to having a lot of sympathy with the Kantian intuition that there is some kind of extra authority ... in which we imbue our moral claims
Page 65 (loc 999) Morality seems to be designed to serve society
Page 68 (loc 1041) moral equilibrium
Page 70 (loc1066) An incapacity to feel guilt amounts to the absence of an internal self punishment-something we think as an important internal mechanism
Page 101 (loc 1514) it is clear that self regulation is a vital feature of our moral lives
Page 111 (loc 1650) the distinctive value of imperatives imbued with practical clout is that they silence further calculation
Page 119 ( loc 1765)establishes a reputation
Page 125 (1862) it manipulated emotional centers
Page 130 (loc 1937) highly hypnotizable participants were given post-hypnotic suggestions to feel a pang of disgust whenever they read an arbitrary word .... this is evidence that a great deal of the time it is our emotions that are driving our moral judgments ... Haidt's studies have repeatedly shown that people are frequently largely unaware of what is prompting their moral evaluations
page 139 (loc 2083) "getting it" requires a certain kind of brain
Page 144 (loc 2154) descriptive evolutionary ethics ... Prescriptive evolutionary ethics
Page 168 (loc2516) The bedrock of his argument ... the primary locus of moral evaluation is not action but rather a person's character.
Page 169 (loc 2520) we should be able to discover what it takes to be a good human being by ascertaining the human function (the ergon)
Page 170 (loc 2547) human flourishing
Page 177 (loc 2645) implausible theory that allows ... moral disputes ... to be settled by digging in African soil
Page 180 (loc 2666) no human trait is hard- wired in the sense of developing inevitably
Page 200 (loc 2976) If one person asserts that something is a non-negotiable feature of some concept and another person denies this, where should they take their dispute?
Page 205 (loc 3060) contingency should not be confused with flimsiness
Page 208 (loc 3107) Thus, a value system lacking practical clout couldnot do effectively play the social roles to which we put morality
Page 212 ( loc 3153) ... true belief has immense survival value ... Wholly false beliefs will not have survival value in the long run ... So if any innate beliefs have arisen through natural selection, we should expect them to be at least approximately true
Page 213 (loc 213) let us interpret my view as holding that moral beliefs are innate. (In fact I would not assert this without much qualification )
Page 221 (loc 3275) [cool Huxley quote]
Page 223 (loc 3300) [definition of agnostic ]
Page 227 (loc 3360) No one denies that emotions affect motivations ... Modern psychological experiments have supported his view. Smiling voluntarily really does affect one's emotions in a positive way. ... human motivation is a much more peculiar affair than we usually think ... Such thought and emotions may become habitual or even aspects of character
Page 1 (loc 37) This book attempts to accomplish two tasks. The first is to address the question "Is human morality innate?"
Page 5 (loc 87) Sociobiology focuses on innate behavior, whereas evolutionary psychology focuses on the psychological mechanisms
Page 6(loc 106) human brain is an organ designed to deal with environmental variation par excellence, and that open-ended plasticity is a human forte
Page 8 (loc 144). So I think Stephen Jay Gould was dead wrong when he said "If we are programmed to be what we are, then those traits are ineluctable ...". Unless by programmed Gould just means something that cannot be changed ...
Page 13 (loc 203) I will outline several means by which helpful, cooperative traits may evolve.
Page 14 (loc 209) [he defines altruism as he intends to use the word]
Page 15 (loc 216) Some humans doubt whether any human actions are altruistic ...
Page 15 (loc 239) to confuse a person with her genes is as silly as confusing her with her lungs
Page 18 (loc 284) I am not claiming that a person's reasons must always be apparent to her, all I am saying is that they are not all ultimately concerned with genetic replication
Page 31 (loc 479) By introducing reputation into our understanding, we move away from standard reciprocal exchanges to what has been called "indirect reciprocity"
Page 37 (loc 569) Groups containing helpers will outperform groups containing fewer or no helpers
Page 48 (loc 731) All the empirical evidence shows that humans are often motivated by genuine regard for others
Page 50 (loc 758) Kant: that actions motivated by pro social emotions cannot be morally admirable
Page 51 (loc 768) ... moral sentiments ... prosocial emotions
Page 56 (loc 853) Yet this observation doesn't undermine the claim that there is a linguistic convention according to which "slut" expresses contempt.
Page 58 (loc 886) where does the practical clout of morality come from?
Page 62 (loc 948) I must confess to having a lot of sympathy with the Kantian intuition that there is some kind of extra authority ... in which we imbue our moral claims
Page 65 (loc 999) Morality seems to be designed to serve society
Page 68 (loc 1041) moral equilibrium
Page 70 (loc1066) An incapacity to feel guilt amounts to the absence of an internal self punishment-something we think as an important internal mechanism
Page 101 (loc 1514) it is clear that self regulation is a vital feature of our moral lives
Page 111 (loc 1650) the distinctive value of imperatives imbued with practical clout is that they silence further calculation
Page 119 ( loc 1765)establishes a reputation
Page 125 (1862) it manipulated emotional centers
Page 130 (loc 1937) highly hypnotizable participants were given post-hypnotic suggestions to feel a pang of disgust whenever they read an arbitrary word .... this is evidence that a great deal of the time it is our emotions that are driving our moral judgments ... Haidt's studies have repeatedly shown that people are frequently largely unaware of what is prompting their moral evaluations
page 139 (loc 2083) "getting it" requires a certain kind of brain
Page 144 (loc 2154) descriptive evolutionary ethics ... Prescriptive evolutionary ethics
Page 168 (loc2516) The bedrock of his argument ... the primary locus of moral evaluation is not action but rather a person's character.
Page 169 (loc 2520) we should be able to discover what it takes to be a good human being by ascertaining the human function (the ergon)
Page 170 (loc 2547) human flourishing
Page 177 (loc 2645) implausible theory that allows ... moral disputes ... to be settled by digging in African soil
Page 180 (loc 2666) no human trait is hard- wired in the sense of developing inevitably
Page 200 (loc 2976) If one person asserts that something is a non-negotiable feature of some concept and another person denies this, where should they take their dispute?
Page 205 (loc 3060) contingency should not be confused with flimsiness
Page 208 (loc 3107) Thus, a value system lacking practical clout couldnot do effectively play the social roles to which we put morality
Page 212 ( loc 3153) ... true belief has immense survival value ... Wholly false beliefs will not have survival value in the long run ... So if any innate beliefs have arisen through natural selection, we should expect them to be at least approximately true
Page 213 (loc 213) let us interpret my view as holding that moral beliefs are innate. (In fact I would not assert this without much qualification )
Page 221 (loc 3275) [cool Huxley quote]
Page 223 (loc 3300) [definition of agnostic ]
Page 227 (loc 3360) No one denies that emotions affect motivations ... Modern psychological experiments have supported his view. Smiling voluntarily really does affect one's emotions in a positive way. ... human motivation is a much more peculiar affair than we usually think ... Such thought and emotions may become habitual or even aspects of character
Saturday, January 7, 2012
Moral skepticism
For my philosophy book club, we are reading 3 books for the next meeting:
1. The Evolution of Morality by Richard Joyce
2. Ethics: Inventing Right and Wrong by J. Mackie
3. Braintrust : What Neuroscience Tells Us about Morality by Pat Churchland
I will post my notes about the books here. I am reading Mackie's book first. He states that moral subjectivism is similar to moral skepticism. For now, I take that to mean that morals can vary with the culture.
He also uses terms: first order and second order. First order is some moral statement. Second order is our examination of that moral statement. I think second order would include the examination of the effect on society if everyone followed the rule outlined in the moral statement.
Take heed of his warning in the introduction: chapter one maybe a hard read for non-philosophy majors. He said scan it and be patient, the other chapters will expound on the concepts.
Quote loc 391: "given any sufficiently determinate standards, it will be an objective issue"
But that is the problem, who gets to determine the standards? Plus those standards don't guarantee a particular outcome.
Quote loc 393: "the subjectivist about values, then, is not denying that there can be objective evaluations relative to standards ... "
He then goes on to talk about the distinction between justice and injustice. And I think his point is similar to Socrates' point: Socrates can answer for specific instances with specific standards BUT can not define justice. Here is a quote from Wikipedia: In response to the two views of injustice and justice presented by Glaucon and Adeimantus, Socrates claims incompetence, but feels it would be impious to leave justice in such doubt. Thus the Republic sets out to define justice
Mackie then discusses the difference between Kant's categorical imperative and Kant's hypothetical imperative. He offers this example of the hypothetical imperative: If you want to be trusted in the future, then you should keep your promises. The author (Mackie) goes on to deny that there are ANY categorical imperatives for moral judgements. I wonder if Mackie will discuss character building BUT maybe (for him) that will still fall under hypothetical imperative.
Loc 671: We therefore want our moral judgements to be authoritative for other agents
Loc 595: moral intuition ... Indeed easy to point out its implausibilities
Loc 790: They concluded that 'good' in ethics has a primarily non-descriptive ...meaning
Loc 797: I admit that such and such is conducive to pleasure, but is it good?
Loc 859: where there is a functional noun about, commendable qualities are those that enable the thing to perform its function
That is his definition of good. Loc 883 has a more succinct definition
Loc 1028: 'ought' is a relatively weak modal auxiliary. Anyone who really means business uses 'must' or 'shall'
Loc 1055-when we put in enough factual conditions....the ought conclusion follows
Loc 1156-the adopting of such fragments of language is not a neutral matter
Loc 1172-the distinction between the factual and the evaluative ... has to be achieved by analysis
Loc 1190-epistemically ought statements refer to what are or were reasons for expecting such-and-such outcome
Loc 1273-do the desires and especially the sufferings of other people,if known to me, constitute a reason for me to do something
Loc 1276-there would be a stronger reason if the people were closer to me
Loc 1279-a moral tradition demands that I show some concern for the well being of others
Loc 1316- [the author talks a lot about promising. I think because it is such a good example]
Loc 1342-universalizability would be trivial and useless, therefor, if we could not rule out ...the many differences as irrelevant
Loc 1344- it may be that what is wrong for you may be right for me. ... but if it is, this can only be because there is some qualitative difference between you and me ...
Loc 1386 [talks about first order and second order]
Loc 1495-what one is trying to do is to look at things, both from one's own and from the other's point of view, and to discover action guiding principles
Loc 1542-the notion of choosing principles from behind a veil of ignorance [which is Rawl's suggestion] ... is a less adequate guarantee of fairness than that of seeking compromise
Loc 1698- morality is a species of evaluation ...there must be something that is supposed to bring about
Loc 1714-detached from its mythological framework, Protagora's thesis is plain : a moral sense,law, and justice are needed to enable men to live together in communities large enough to compete with wild beasts
Loc 1717-but Hobbes is far more explicit about the solution than Protagora
Loc 1750- But, Hume insists, a single act of justice, considered on its own, may do more harm than good
Loc 1758- one cannot afford to obey these rules unless some guarantee that others will do so too
Loc 1797- in moral thinking we have to weigh reasons, not simply follow rules
Loc 1920- technological advances of many kinds have put greatly increased powers into the hands of some people and some organizations
Loc 1975-act utilitarianism
Loc 1983- this proposal has several obvious merits,. It seems reasonable that morality ... should have something to do with happiness
Loc 1986 moral principles should be fair
Loc 2003 Is it really possible to measure pleasure and pain?
Loc 2057 Act utilitarian is by no means the only moral theory that displays this extreme of impracticality
Loc 2080 To identify morality with something that certainly will not be followed is a sure way of bringing it into contempt
Loc 2578 the difference between a means, a side effect or unintended consequence
Loc 2708 it is the main function of any economic system to produce cooperation
loc 2753 Our rejection of objective values carries with it the denial that there are any self-subsistent rights
loc 2771 in practice rights have to be determined by a ploitico-lega process
loc 2780 Locke's basic principle is that everyone has an exclusive right to his ....own labour
loc 2836 men's real goals are irresolvably diverse
loc 2843 Does the right of a nation ... include the right to forbid or to limit immigration
loc 2850 ..claims to absolute rights is disastrous ....
loc 2856 recognize their conflicting prima facie rights as such and to look for a solution which can be seen as a reasonable compromise between these prima facie rights
loc 2889 What we need, therefore, is not a general defence of liberty, but adjudication between particular rival claims to freedom
Loc 2936 it is now utterly impossible for human nature to go on subsisting unless there are some limits to aggression
Loc 2987 there is merit in Aristotle 's formal sketch taken simply as such. The good life will consist in activities that manifest and realize developed dispositions for choice
Loc 3021 I have argued that egoism is not immoral, but forms a considerable part of any viable moral system
Loc 3030 it is necessary for the well being of people in general that they should act to some extent in ways that they cannot see as egoistically prudent
...Plato ...the just man is happy because his soul is harmoniously ordered
Loc 3073 my approach takes general human well being as the foundation of morality
Loc 3119 what is not fair is that people would take risks with the lives of others who do not and would not willingly make that choice
Loc 3297 a system of morality ... modifying an agent's view of possible actions
Loc 3321 can someone be held responsible not only for inadvertent negligence but also for unforeseen results
Loc 3346 the psychopath stands outside the system of control
Loc 3585 The rationality of morality consists in the fact, brought out by Protagoras and Hobbes and Hume and Warnick, that men need moral rules and principles and dispositions if they are to live together and flourish in communities ... and evolution...
Loc 3678 divergent moralities within the same society
Loc 3693 experience shows that such corruption is the usual result of an attempt to enforce a morality ... whose support is insincere
Loc 3723 prisoner's dilemma
Loc 3725 international applications
Loc3732 In particular, serious negotiation is easier if the opposing parties not only understand each other's claims but appreciate the motives and the moral basis on which they rest
Great book!
1. The Evolution of Morality by Richard Joyce
2. Ethics: Inventing Right and Wrong by J. Mackie
3. Braintrust : What Neuroscience Tells Us about Morality by Pat Churchland
I will post my notes about the books here. I am reading Mackie's book first. He states that moral subjectivism is similar to moral skepticism. For now, I take that to mean that morals can vary with the culture.
He also uses terms: first order and second order. First order is some moral statement. Second order is our examination of that moral statement. I think second order would include the examination of the effect on society if everyone followed the rule outlined in the moral statement.
Take heed of his warning in the introduction: chapter one maybe a hard read for non-philosophy majors. He said scan it and be patient, the other chapters will expound on the concepts.
Quote loc 391: "given any sufficiently determinate standards, it will be an objective issue"
But that is the problem, who gets to determine the standards? Plus those standards don't guarantee a particular outcome.
Quote loc 393: "the subjectivist about values, then, is not denying that there can be objective evaluations relative to standards ... "
He then goes on to talk about the distinction between justice and injustice. And I think his point is similar to Socrates' point: Socrates can answer for specific instances with specific standards BUT can not define justice. Here is a quote from Wikipedia: In response to the two views of injustice and justice presented by Glaucon and Adeimantus, Socrates claims incompetence, but feels it would be impious to leave justice in such doubt. Thus the Republic sets out to define justice
Mackie then discusses the difference between Kant's categorical imperative and Kant's hypothetical imperative. He offers this example of the hypothetical imperative: If you want to be trusted in the future, then you should keep your promises. The author (Mackie) goes on to deny that there are ANY categorical imperatives for moral judgements. I wonder if Mackie will discuss character building BUT maybe (for him) that will still fall under hypothetical imperative.
Loc 671: We therefore want our moral judgements to be authoritative for other agents
Loc 595: moral intuition ... Indeed easy to point out its implausibilities
Loc 790: They concluded that 'good' in ethics has a primarily non-descriptive ...meaning
Loc 797: I admit that such and such is conducive to pleasure, but is it good?
Loc 859: where there is a functional noun about, commendable qualities are those that enable the thing to perform its function
That is his definition of good. Loc 883 has a more succinct definition
Loc 1028: 'ought' is a relatively weak modal auxiliary. Anyone who really means business uses 'must' or 'shall'
Loc 1055-when we put in enough factual conditions....the ought conclusion follows
Loc 1156-the adopting of such fragments of language is not a neutral matter
Loc 1172-the distinction between the factual and the evaluative ... has to be achieved by analysis
Loc 1190-epistemically ought statements refer to what are or were reasons for expecting such-and-such outcome
Loc 1273-do the desires and especially the sufferings of other people,if known to me, constitute a reason for me to do something
Loc 1276-there would be a stronger reason if the people were closer to me
Loc 1279-a moral tradition demands that I show some concern for the well being of others
Loc 1316- [the author talks a lot about promising. I think because it is such a good example]
Loc 1342-universalizability would be trivial and useless, therefor, if we could not rule out ...the many differences as irrelevant
Loc 1344- it may be that what is wrong for you may be right for me. ... but if it is, this can only be because there is some qualitative difference between you and me ...
Loc 1386 [talks about first order and second order]
Loc 1495-what one is trying to do is to look at things, both from one's own and from the other's point of view, and to discover action guiding principles
Loc 1542-the notion of choosing principles from behind a veil of ignorance [which is Rawl's suggestion] ... is a less adequate guarantee of fairness than that of seeking compromise
Loc 1698- morality is a species of evaluation ...there must be something that is supposed to bring about
Loc 1714-detached from its mythological framework, Protagora's thesis is plain : a moral sense,law, and justice are needed to enable men to live together in communities large enough to compete with wild beasts
Loc 1717-but Hobbes is far more explicit about the solution than Protagora
Loc 1750- But, Hume insists, a single act of justice, considered on its own, may do more harm than good
Loc 1758- one cannot afford to obey these rules unless some guarantee that others will do so too
Loc 1797- in moral thinking we have to weigh reasons, not simply follow rules
Loc 1920- technological advances of many kinds have put greatly increased powers into the hands of some people and some organizations
Loc 1975-act utilitarianism
Loc 1983- this proposal has several obvious merits,. It seems reasonable that morality ... should have something to do with happiness
Loc 1986 moral principles should be fair
Loc 2003 Is it really possible to measure pleasure and pain?
Loc 2057 Act utilitarian is by no means the only moral theory that displays this extreme of impracticality
Loc 2080 To identify morality with something that certainly will not be followed is a sure way of bringing it into contempt
Loc 2578 the difference between a means, a side effect or unintended consequence
Loc 2708 it is the main function of any economic system to produce cooperation
loc 2753 Our rejection of objective values carries with it the denial that there are any self-subsistent rights
loc 2771 in practice rights have to be determined by a ploitico-lega process
loc 2780 Locke's basic principle is that everyone has an exclusive right to his ....own labour
loc 2836 men's real goals are irresolvably diverse
loc 2843 Does the right of a nation ... include the right to forbid or to limit immigration
loc 2850 ..claims to absolute rights is disastrous ....
loc 2856 recognize their conflicting prima facie rights as such and to look for a solution which can be seen as a reasonable compromise between these prima facie rights
loc 2889 What we need, therefore, is not a general defence of liberty, but adjudication between particular rival claims to freedom
Loc 2936 it is now utterly impossible for human nature to go on subsisting unless there are some limits to aggression
Loc 2987 there is merit in Aristotle 's formal sketch taken simply as such. The good life will consist in activities that manifest and realize developed dispositions for choice
Loc 3021 I have argued that egoism is not immoral, but forms a considerable part of any viable moral system
Loc 3030 it is necessary for the well being of people in general that they should act to some extent in ways that they cannot see as egoistically prudent
...Plato ...the just man is happy because his soul is harmoniously ordered
Loc 3073 my approach takes general human well being as the foundation of morality
Loc 3119 what is not fair is that people would take risks with the lives of others who do not and would not willingly make that choice
Loc 3297 a system of morality ... modifying an agent's view of possible actions
Loc 3321 can someone be held responsible not only for inadvertent negligence but also for unforeseen results
Loc 3346 the psychopath stands outside the system of control
Loc 3585 The rationality of morality consists in the fact, brought out by Protagoras and Hobbes and Hume and Warnick, that men need moral rules and principles and dispositions if they are to live together and flourish in communities ... and evolution...
Loc 3678 divergent moralities within the same society
Loc 3693 experience shows that such corruption is the usual result of an attempt to enforce a morality ... whose support is insincere
Loc 3723 prisoner's dilemma
Loc 3725 international applications
Loc3732 In particular, serious negotiation is easier if the opposing parties not only understand each other's claims but appreciate the motives and the moral basis on which they rest
Great book!
Friday, August 19, 2011
new meetup site
http://www.meetup.com/philosophyclub/
I think it will be easier to keep track of RSVP's by using the meetup web site. So I set one up. See link above. Please join.
I think it will be easier to keep track of RSVP's by using the meetup web site. So I set one up. See link above. Please join.
Wednesday, August 3, 2011
August 21st dinner--We're discussing 'The Wisdom of Crowds'
If you're attending our dinner on August 21st, please consider emailing me your questions about the book so I can add them here. I was hoping we would discuss 9 topic questions for an average of 10 minutes each from 5:30 to 7 pm. Then we could have a free for all after that.
We have room for a total of 8.
1.Susan 2. Earl 3. Julie 4. Sandy 5. Harry 6. John 7. Fred 8.Michael F.
The book: The Wisdom f Crowds by James Surowiecki
Quote from page 1 (location 42)
Earl said he'd help me reduce these down to 9 by August 21st.
Page 1 Loc. 163-64
Diversity and independence are important because the best collective decisions are the product of disagreement and contest, not consensus or compromise.
Page 1 Loc. 167-68
Paradoxically, the best way for a group to be smart is for each person in it to think and act as independently as possible
Page 5 Loc. 233-35
They were making individual guesses, which were aggregated and then averaged. This is exactly what Galton did, and it is likely to produce excellent results. (In a later chapter, we’ll see how having members interact changes things, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.)
page 11 Loc. 329-30
With most things, the average is mediocrity. With decision making, it’s often excellence. You could say it’s as if we’ve been programmed to be collectively smart.
Page 29 Loc. 595-97
What makes a system successful is its ability to recognize losers and kill them quickly. Or, rather, what makes a system successful is its ability to generate lots of losers and then to recognize them as such and kill them off. Sometimes the messiest approach is the wisest.
page 30 Loc. 607-9
cognitive diversity needs to be actively selected, and it’s important to do so because in small groups it’s easy for a few biased individuals to exert undue influence and skew the group’s collective decision.
Page 30 Loc. 618-19
intelligence alone is not enough, because intelligence alone cannot guarantee you different perspectives on a problem.
Page 36 Loc. 716-20
Janis argued that when decision makers are too much alike—in worldview and mind-set—they easily fall prey to groupthink. Homogeneous groups become cohesive more easily than diverse groups, and as they become more cohesive they also become more dependent on the group, more insulated from outside opinions, and therefore more convinced that the group’s judgment on important issues must be right. These kinds of groups, Janis suggested, share an illusion of invulnerability, a willingness to rationalize away possible counterarguments to the group’s position, and a conviction that dissent is not useful.
Page 39 Loc. 756-57
Ultimately, diversity contributes not just by adding different perspectives to the group but also by making it easier for individuals to say what they really think.
Page 41 Loc. 774-75
Independence doesn’t mean isolation, but it does mean relative freedom from the influence o others
Page 42 Loc. 791-92
For all this, though, independence is hard to come by. We are autonomous beings, but we are also social beings.
Page 59 Loc. 1053-54
Mimicry is so central to the way we live that economist Herbert Simon speculated that humans were genetically predisposed to be imitation machines.
Page 63 Loc. 1110-11
The same might also be said, though less definitively, about cultural products (like TV shows) where part of why we watch the show is to talk about it with our friends,
Page 93 Loc. 1563-64
Conventions allow us to deal with certain situations without thinking much about them, and when it comes to coordination problems in particular, they allow groups of disparate, unconnected people to organize themselves with relative ease and an absence of conflict.
Page 95 Loc. 1591-92
The most successful norms are internalized.
Page 115 Loc. 1898-1900
One reason for this is that Americans are far more likely to believe that wealth is the result of initiative and skill, while Europeans are far more likely to attribute it to luck. Americans still think, perhaps inaccurately, of the United States as a relatively mobile society, in which it’s possible for a working-class kid to become rich.
Page 118 Loc. 1936-37
It may be, in the end, that a good society is defined more by how people treat strangers than by how they treat those they know.
Page 126 Loc. 2060-62
The social benefits of trust and cooperation are, at this point, relatively unquestioned. But they do create a problem: the more people trust, the easier they are for others to exploit. And if trust is the most valuable social product of market interactions, corruption is its most damaging.
Page 126 Loc. 2070-71
Capitalism is healthiest when people believe that the long-term benefits of fair dealing outweigh the short-term benefits of sharp dealing.
Page 137 Loc. 2236-37
tax paying is a classic example of a cooperation problem. Everyone reaps benefits from the services that taxes fund.
Page 140 Loc. 2289
Law alone cannot induce cooperation, but it can make cooperation more likely to succeed.
Page 139 Loc. 2273-75
conditional consenters. They start out contributing at least some of their wealth, but watching others free ride makes them far less likely to keep putting money in.
Page 141
The mystery of cooperation, after all, is that Olson was right: it is rational to free ride. And yet cooperation, on both a small and a large scale, permeates any healthy society
Page 162 Loc. 2565-66
“Today’s complex problem solving requires multiple perspectives.
Page 180 Loc. 2827
One of the real dangers that small groups face is emphasizing consensus over dissent.
Page 182 Loc. 2866-67
One of the consistent findings from decades of small-group research is that group deliberations are more successful when they have a clear agenda and when leaders take an active role in making sure that everyone gets a chance to speak.
Page 183 Loc. 2885-86
That matters because, in small groups, diversity of opinion is the single best guarantee that the group will reap benefits from face-to-face discussion.
Page 203 Loc. 3163-64
the search for consensus encourages tepid, lowest-common-denominator solutions which offend no one rather than exciting everyone.
Page 213 Loc. 3311-13
Similar results from both experimental and empirical studies show that allowing people to make decisions about their own working conditions often makes a material difference in how they perform.
on Page 264 Loc. 4089-90
If your vote doesn’t matter and the choice of the winner doesn’t make much of a difference either, why vote?
Page 265 Loc. 4104-5
ideology does a much better job of predicting attitudes on issues than self-interest does.
Page 268 Loc. 4153-58
The preamble of the U.S. Constitution defines the goal of the document as being, in part, to “establish justice” and “promote the general welfare.”
We have room for a total of 8.
1.Susan 2. Earl 3. Julie 4. Sandy 5. Harry 6. John 7. Fred 8.Michael F.
The book: The Wisdom f Crowds by James Surowiecki
Quote from page 1 (location 42)
"Breeding mattered to Galton because he believed that only a very few people had the characteristics necessary to keep societies healthy. He had devoted much of his career to measuring those characteristics," <==that is how he starts out the book...and I think he spends the next 272 pages disapproving that statement. Do you agree?
Earl said he'd help me reduce these down to 9 by August 21st.
I was hoping we could discuss the following quotes:
Quote from page 1 (location 127)
If you put together a big enough and diverse enough group of people and ask them to “make decisions affecting matters of general interest,” that group’s decisions will, over time, be “intellectually [superior] to the isolated individual,” no matter how smart or well-informed he is. IVPage 1 Loc. 163-64
Diversity and independence are important because the best collective decisions are the product of disagreement and contest, not consensus or compromise.
Page 1 Loc. 167-68
Paradoxically, the best way for a group to be smart is for each person in it to think and act as independently as possible
Page 5 Loc. 233-35
They were making individual guesses, which were aggregated and then averaged. This is exactly what Galton did, and it is likely to produce excellent results. (In a later chapter, we’ll see how having members interact changes things, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.)
page 11 Loc. 329-30
With most things, the average is mediocrity. With decision making, it’s often excellence. You could say it’s as if we’ve been programmed to be collectively smart.
Page 29 Loc. 595-97
What makes a system successful is its ability to recognize losers and kill them quickly. Or, rather, what makes a system successful is its ability to generate lots of losers and then to recognize them as such and kill them off. Sometimes the messiest approach is the wisest.
page 30 Loc. 607-9
cognitive diversity needs to be actively selected, and it’s important to do so because in small groups it’s easy for a few biased individuals to exert undue influence and skew the group’s collective decision.
Page 30 Loc. 618-19
intelligence alone is not enough, because intelligence alone cannot guarantee you different perspectives on a problem.
Page 36 Loc. 716-20
Janis argued that when decision makers are too much alike—in worldview and mind-set—they easily fall prey to groupthink. Homogeneous groups become cohesive more easily than diverse groups, and as they become more cohesive they also become more dependent on the group, more insulated from outside opinions, and therefore more convinced that the group’s judgment on important issues must be right. These kinds of groups, Janis suggested, share an illusion of invulnerability, a willingness to rationalize away possible counterarguments to the group’s position, and a conviction that dissent is not useful.
Page 39 Loc. 756-57
Ultimately, diversity contributes not just by adding different perspectives to the group but also by making it easier for individuals to say what they really think.
Page 41 Loc. 774-75
Independence doesn’t mean isolation, but it does mean relative freedom from the influence o others
Page 42 Loc. 791-92
For all this, though, independence is hard to come by. We are autonomous beings, but we are also social beings.
Page 59 Loc. 1053-54
Mimicry is so central to the way we live that economist Herbert Simon speculated that humans were genetically predisposed to be imitation machines.
Page 63 Loc. 1110-11
The same might also be said, though less definitively, about cultural products (like TV shows) where part of why we watch the show is to talk about it with our friends,
Page 93 Loc. 1563-64
Conventions allow us to deal with certain situations without thinking much about them, and when it comes to coordination problems in particular, they allow groups of disparate, unconnected people to organize themselves with relative ease and an absence of conflict.
Page 95 Loc. 1591-92
The most successful norms are internalized.
Page 115 Loc. 1898-1900
One reason for this is that Americans are far more likely to believe that wealth is the result of initiative and skill, while Europeans are far more likely to attribute it to luck. Americans still think, perhaps inaccurately, of the United States as a relatively mobile society, in which it’s possible for a working-class kid to become rich.
Page 118 Loc. 1936-37
It may be, in the end, that a good society is defined more by how people treat strangers than by how they treat those they know.
Page 126 Loc. 2060-62
The social benefits of trust and cooperation are, at this point, relatively unquestioned. But they do create a problem: the more people trust, the easier they are for others to exploit. And if trust is the most valuable social product of market interactions, corruption is its most damaging.
Page 126 Loc. 2070-71
Capitalism is healthiest when people believe that the long-term benefits of fair dealing outweigh the short-term benefits of sharp dealing.
Page 137 Loc. 2236-37
tax paying is a classic example of a cooperation problem. Everyone reaps benefits from the services that taxes fund.
Page 140 Loc. 2289
Law alone cannot induce cooperation, but it can make cooperation more likely to succeed.
Page 139 Loc. 2273-75
conditional consenters. They start out contributing at least some of their wealth, but watching others free ride makes them far less likely to keep putting money in.
Page 141
The mystery of cooperation, after all, is that Olson was right: it is rational to free ride. And yet cooperation, on both a small and a large scale, permeates any healthy society
Page 162 Loc. 2565-66
“Today’s complex problem solving requires multiple perspectives.
Page 180 Loc. 2827
One of the real dangers that small groups face is emphasizing consensus over dissent.
Page 182 Loc. 2866-67
One of the consistent findings from decades of small-group research is that group deliberations are more successful when they have a clear agenda and when leaders take an active role in making sure that everyone gets a chance to speak.
Page 183 Loc. 2885-86
That matters because, in small groups, diversity of opinion is the single best guarantee that the group will reap benefits from face-to-face discussion.
Page 203 Loc. 3163-64
the search for consensus encourages tepid, lowest-common-denominator solutions which offend no one rather than exciting everyone.
Page 213 Loc. 3311-13
Similar results from both experimental and empirical studies show that allowing people to make decisions about their own working conditions often makes a material difference in how they perform.
on Page 264 Loc. 4089-90
If your vote doesn’t matter and the choice of the winner doesn’t make much of a difference either, why vote?
Page 265 Loc. 4104-5
ideology does a much better job of predicting attitudes on issues than self-interest does.
Page 268 Loc. 4153-58
The preamble of the U.S. Constitution defines the goal of the document as being, in part, to “establish justice” and “promote the general welfare.”
Monday, July 18, 2011
August, September and October books
Meetings are limited to eight people because that is all the room we have around our table. Earl usually cooks salmon and mashed potatoes for us. BUT if we have any vegetarians joining us, we'll also add a vegetarian dish.
The Wisdom of Crowds by James Surowiecki <==That's the book topic for the August 21st dinner.
1. Susan 2. Earl 3. John R. 4. Fred 5. Julie 6. Sandy 7. Harry 8. ??
Book for September==> The Unconscious Civilization by John Raulston Saul
We will meet one Sunday evening in September. I'm not sure which Sunday yet. If you're interested in discussing this book, please let me know which Sunday evening works best for you.
As of now, the yes RSVP for September:
1. Susan 2. Earl 3. Julie 4. Marcus 5. Fred
book for October==> Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder It sold more than 30 million copies. BE CAREFUL...don't buy the wrong one. There is another one not written by Jostein Gaarder.
The October meeting will be the last Sunday in October (October 30th) at Earl's and my home.
Sophie's World is an easy to read novel about the history of philosophy. Not in depth (of course) but it covers plato, aristotle, descartes, spinoza, locke, hume, berkeley, bjerkely, kant, hegel, kierkegaard, marx, darwin, freud, sartre
As of now, the yes RSVP for October:
1. Susan 2. Earl 3. Jon 4. Jenny
Here is a review I found at amazon.com about the September book (The Unconscious Civilization by John Raulston Saul):
In this concise and convincing piece Saul argues that we are acting rather irresponsibly as citizens, abandoning the democratic institutions that can best articulate our needs and priorities as a society and allowing private sector entities to assume greater and greater control over our lives. While those who have not read the book may dismiss such arguments as anti-capitalist ideology, Saul's tone is in fact very measured and thoughtful, and the ideas he so deftly explores leave the reader with considerable food for thought. Moreover, the style of the writing is not at all academic - the book is as easy and enjoyable to read as it is thought-provoking.
The Wisdom of Crowds by James Surowiecki <==That's the book topic for the August 21st dinner.
1. Susan 2. Earl 3. John R. 4. Fred 5. Julie 6. Sandy 7. Harry 8. ??
Book for September==> The Unconscious Civilization by John Raulston Saul
We will meet one Sunday evening in September. I'm not sure which Sunday yet. If you're interested in discussing this book, please let me know which Sunday evening works best for you.
As of now, the yes RSVP for September:
1. Susan 2. Earl 3. Julie 4. Marcus 5. Fred
book for October==> Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder It sold more than 30 million copies. BE CAREFUL...don't buy the wrong one. There is another one not written by Jostein Gaarder.
The October meeting will be the last Sunday in October (October 30th) at Earl's and my home.
Sophie's World is an easy to read novel about the history of philosophy. Not in depth (of course) but it covers plato, aristotle, descartes, spinoza, locke, hume, berkeley, bjerkely, kant, hegel, kierkegaard, marx, darwin, freud, sartre
As of now, the yes RSVP for October:
1. Susan 2. Earl 3. Jon 4. Jenny
Here is a review I found at amazon.com about the September book (The Unconscious Civilization by John Raulston Saul):
In this concise and convincing piece Saul argues that we are acting rather irresponsibly as citizens, abandoning the democratic institutions that can best articulate our needs and priorities as a society and allowing private sector entities to assume greater and greater control over our lives. While those who have not read the book may dismiss such arguments as anti-capitalist ideology, Saul's tone is in fact very measured and thoughtful, and the ideas he so deftly explores leave the reader with considerable food for thought. Moreover, the style of the writing is not at all academic - the book is as easy and enjoyable to read as it is thought-provoking.
Sunday, July 17, 2011
'From Stimulus to Science' by W.V. Quine
I have heard phlosophy students say that they love Quine. So I wanted to read something by Quine. I found this book available on the kindle. Admittedly, I struggled with the book. I would have a better time understanding Quine if I took at least a semester with someone that understood him. BUT...even if I can't say I understood everything in the book....I think there are some points that will be fun to discuss.
These are quotes from the book that I think can be jumping off points for discussion. The number is the location on the kindle:
location 383 of 1035: Am I the same person I was in my youth? Or in my mother's womb? Will I be the same person after my brain transplant?
loc 362: qualitative indistiguishability is neither necessary nor sufficient for identity. A body can grow, shrink, discolor
location 37, Quine tells us Hobbe's view: "there is nothing but matter in motion. Thought is motion in the brain." End quote. How do you define thought?
loc 60: All three agreed that our lore about the world is a fabric of ideas based on sense impressions
Loc 61: As Wittgenstein observed, even a simple sense quality is elusive unless braced by public language
Loc 65: How do we know that the words we use to express our ideas are conjuring up the same ideas in the minds of our listeners?
Loc 81: lent support to the view of sentences as the primary vehicles of meaning [sentences as compared to words all by themselves]
around loc 707: Defining the notion of meaning for sentences may properly be said to consist simply in specifying the circumstances in which two sentences have the same meaning.
Loc 208: Shared ancestry and shared environment, will tend to harmonize across the tribe
Beginning around Loc 217, he begins to explain how we get from observation sentences to a generalized expession of expectation. He explains how the path from observation to prediction is precarious. We are constantly (or should be) testing out our theories. So the quote is at location 253: In the evolution of language, and also in the child's learning of it, the leap from ordinary observation to observation categoricals was a giant one ......observation categoricals are the direct expression of inductive expectation, which underlies all learning.
loc 467: It has been held by positivists that a closed sentence is meaningless unless it has empirical content except for mathematics. He criticizes this idea because he says it will impede science....because wild guesses are the building blocks of science.
Loc 486: Creating good hypotheses is an imaginative art, not a science
somewhere around Loc 635 Thanks to the negation sign, there are as many truths as falsehoods
That struck me as an odd thought.
somewhere around Loc 635: We should and do currently accept the firmest scientific conclusions as true, but when one of these is dislodged by further research we do not say that it had been true but became false. We say that to our surprise it was not true after all. Science is seen as pursuing and discovering truth rather than as decreeing it
around location 767: sometimes one of the speakers can diagnose such a disagreement by switching to another occasion sentence that has the same meaning for him. If the speakers agree on the truth value of this sentence, then clearly the earlier disgreemnt was semantic; the original sentence did not mean the same for the two speakers. Often the discrepancy can be narrowed down to a word, by hitting on a substitute that restores agreement. <====the thing that I liked about this quote was that sometimes it seems to me that people get lost in just debating the meaning of a word RATHER than trying to understand one another. Quine seems to be saying that he thinks that is silly also if what we're trying to do is understand one another.
loc 786 (Chapter VIII): Descartes's ontological dualism of mind and body was not an easy position to rest with....[and then a couple of paragraphs later]...Monism is now the order of the day. Dualism can be trivially dissolved, if we do not try to allow for diembodied spirits. Every state of mind corrsponds to a distinct state of the body
loc 814: Some of the activity of thinking is in the brain and some apparently in the muscles
loc 817: Finally imagine nerves linking each terminal on the one plate with each terminal on the other. Activation of any one of these links makes it more sensitive to further activation. Such is believed to be the mechanism of conditioning, habituation, expectation
loc 821: When we deliberately and effortfully think, presumably muscles come into play. Primary among these are the speech muscles. [and then a couple of paragraphs later] The artist , engineer, and acrobat are poor at putting their thoughts into words, for they were thinking with nonverbal mscles.[and then a couple of paragraphs later] As language went on developing in early man, its capacity to communicate increased, and conversely the proliferation of thought worth communicating was itself due to the development of language.
The following are things I googled or looked up on wikipedia to help me understand the book:
Monism in philosophy can be defined according to three kinds:
1.Idealism, phenomenalism, or mentalistic monism which holds that only mind is real.
2.Neutral monism, which holds that both the mental and the physical can be reduced to some sort of third substance, or energy.
3.Physicalism or materialism, which holds that only the physical is real, and that the mental or spiritual can be reduced to the physical.
Certain other positions are hard to pigeonhole into the above categories, see links below.
I don't understand the logic symbols and I googled it to try to find a list and found this:
The traditional symbol for the universal quantifier is "∀", an inverted letter "A", which stands for the word "all"; in other schools, a
is used instead. The corresponding symbol for the existential quantifier is "∃", a rotated letter "E", which stands for the word "exists". Other schools use the symbol 
instead.
And I found this table:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_logic_symbols
These are quotes from the book that I think can be jumping off points for discussion. The number is the location on the kindle:
location 383 of 1035: Am I the same person I was in my youth? Or in my mother's womb? Will I be the same person after my brain transplant?
loc 362: qualitative indistiguishability is neither necessary nor sufficient for identity. A body can grow, shrink, discolor
location 37, Quine tells us Hobbe's view: "there is nothing but matter in motion. Thought is motion in the brain." End quote. How do you define thought?
loc 60: All three agreed that our lore about the world is a fabric of ideas based on sense impressions
Loc 61: As Wittgenstein observed, even a simple sense quality is elusive unless braced by public language
Loc 65: How do we know that the words we use to express our ideas are conjuring up the same ideas in the minds of our listeners?
Loc 81: lent support to the view of sentences as the primary vehicles of meaning [sentences as compared to words all by themselves]
around loc 707: Defining the notion of meaning for sentences may properly be said to consist simply in specifying the circumstances in which two sentences have the same meaning.
Loc 208: Shared ancestry and shared environment, will tend to harmonize across the tribe
Beginning around Loc 217, he begins to explain how we get from observation sentences to a generalized expession of expectation. He explains how the path from observation to prediction is precarious. We are constantly (or should be) testing out our theories. So the quote is at location 253: In the evolution of language, and also in the child's learning of it, the leap from ordinary observation to observation categoricals was a giant one ......observation categoricals are the direct expression of inductive expectation, which underlies all learning.
loc 467: It has been held by positivists that a closed sentence is meaningless unless it has empirical content except for mathematics. He criticizes this idea because he says it will impede science....because wild guesses are the building blocks of science.
Loc 486: Creating good hypotheses is an imaginative art, not a science
somewhere around Loc 635 Thanks to the negation sign, there are as many truths as falsehoods
That struck me as an odd thought.
somewhere around Loc 635: We should and do currently accept the firmest scientific conclusions as true, but when one of these is dislodged by further research we do not say that it had been true but became false. We say that to our surprise it was not true after all. Science is seen as pursuing and discovering truth rather than as decreeing it
around location 767: sometimes one of the speakers can diagnose such a disagreement by switching to another occasion sentence that has the same meaning for him. If the speakers agree on the truth value of this sentence, then clearly the earlier disgreemnt was semantic; the original sentence did not mean the same for the two speakers. Often the discrepancy can be narrowed down to a word, by hitting on a substitute that restores agreement. <====the thing that I liked about this quote was that sometimes it seems to me that people get lost in just debating the meaning of a word RATHER than trying to understand one another. Quine seems to be saying that he thinks that is silly also if what we're trying to do is understand one another.
loc 786 (Chapter VIII): Descartes's ontological dualism of mind and body was not an easy position to rest with....[and then a couple of paragraphs later]...Monism is now the order of the day. Dualism can be trivially dissolved, if we do not try to allow for diembodied spirits. Every state of mind corrsponds to a distinct state of the body
loc 814: Some of the activity of thinking is in the brain and some apparently in the muscles
loc 817: Finally imagine nerves linking each terminal on the one plate with each terminal on the other. Activation of any one of these links makes it more sensitive to further activation. Such is believed to be the mechanism of conditioning, habituation, expectation
loc 821: When we deliberately and effortfully think, presumably muscles come into play. Primary among these are the speech muscles. [and then a couple of paragraphs later] The artist , engineer, and acrobat are poor at putting their thoughts into words, for they were thinking with nonverbal mscles.[and then a couple of paragraphs later] As language went on developing in early man, its capacity to communicate increased, and conversely the proliferation of thought worth communicating was itself due to the development of language.
The following are things I googled or looked up on wikipedia to help me understand the book:
Monism in philosophy can be defined according to three kinds:
1.Idealism, phenomenalism, or mentalistic monism which holds that only mind is real.
2.Neutral monism, which holds that both the mental and the physical can be reduced to some sort of third substance, or energy.
3.Physicalism or materialism, which holds that only the physical is real, and that the mental or spiritual can be reduced to the physical.
Certain other positions are hard to pigeonhole into the above categories, see links below.
I don't understand the logic symbols and I googled it to try to find a list and found this:
The traditional symbol for the universal quantifier is "∀", an inverted letter "A", which stands for the word "all"; in other schools, a
is used instead. The corresponding symbol for the existential quantifier is "∃", a rotated letter "E", which stands for the word "exists". Other schools use the symbol instead.And I found this table:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_logic_symbols
Tuesday, June 21, 2011
Becoming Animal by David Abram
Next meeting/dinner is July 16th and being held at John Ruskuski's home.
Arrive 5 pm or so for drinks and such, then dinner at 6.
By the way, John has dogs.
The book that we'll discuss is Becoming Animal by David Abram
We are limiting meetings to 8 people now.
Yes RSVP's for the July 16th meeting:
Susan,Earl,John Ruskuski,Joyce,Bill,Julie,Fred, and Travis
I'm accumulating my questions here on this blog. Most of these questions are vague so that the discussion may go in all kinds of directions. I'd still like to maintain the structure of 10 minutes (or less) per topic question if that is OK with everyone.
The first two questions are Bill's questions. The others are mine.
1. The number one question that this book raised for Bill was this: Let's posit that shamanism uses slight of hand and conjuring to create a false sense of some intermediary power over others through careful examination of the physical world (rather than fear of it) and uses that information to maintain a superior position over others in groups of people. Is religion, as it is practiced in western civilization, a direct descendant of fear of the unknown, and therefore one of the all time greatest magic tricks ever?
2. Does modern philosophy suffer from detachment of the observer by virtue of their isolation and insulation from our natural sense of acuity and awareness of the world that surrounds us? Abram's philosophical approach is to connect with his world through the eyes of one who works their hands and mind through their environment rather than an approach that is disconnected or cutoff from his surrounding world by technology. [I think this question is somewhat similar to question # 9 and # 4]
3. Does language help shape our beliefs?
4. Abram asks this question: "Do we really trust that the human mind can maintain its coherence in an exclusively man--made world?" at loc 2041
5. Did you have a hard time discerning when Abram was talking in metaphor and when he was making claims that he believed were truly part of reality? I heard that Plato didn't like poets. Do you feel a benefit to poetry? The metaphors are poetry, yes?
6. Quote from the book: "As soon as we breathe out, letting mind flow back into the field that surrounds us, we feel a new looseness and freedom." This is one example of what prompted my questions # 5 and #14
7. I am interested in what you think of the 'Sleight-of-Hand' chapter especially this sentence (located around 3282 on the Kindle): "I had learned to recognize the impressions, when they arrived, as an inward indication that I was standing close to a magician of unusual depth and strength." [This is similar to Bill's question #1 but different. I was hoping to head in a direction of bazarre experiences we have had in relation to reality]
8. I'd like to discuss this quote which is around loc 3721: "Dance was the improvisational ecstasy that dissolved the crossfire of other people's emotions."
9. I'd like to discuss these three quotes.
loc 4042:"Each thing attentively pondered, gathers our senses together in a unique way."
loc 4192:"The nervous system that seethes within our skin still thirsts for relatively unmediated exchange with reality"
loc 4585: Leave abundant space in our days for an interchange with one another and with our surroundings that is not mediated by technology
10. Do you think this is true: "the human craving for relation with that which exceeds us is as strong as ever" loc [4402]
11. Humans have invented things. Have those inventions made the lives of humans better or worse?
12. Are humans today more or less violent than humans during the days of the Inquisition?
13. I liked his explanation of the difference between Plato's concept of "idea" and Aristotle's concept. Which way do you lean? Is there a pure reality? Or should we be content with what we can observe with our senses? Are my questions falling prey to the logical fallacy of the false dichotomy?
14. Dualism. Are there many different aspects to that concept? I believe that Spinoza didn't like Descartes' dualism (mind/body separation). But I think that Spinoza did think that there was a oneness to all of nature. If you believe in a oneness, then does that make you a dualist of sorts? In other words, could you be considered a dualist if you think there is a substance that connects us all???
from wikipedia:
Monism in philosophy can be defined according to three kinds:
A.Idealism, phenomenalism, or mentalistic monism which holds that only mind is real.
B.Neutral monism, which holds that both the mental and the physical can be reduced to some sort of third substance, or energy.
C.Physicalism or materialism, which holds that only the physical is real, and that the mental or spiritual can be reduced to the physical.
Certain other positions are hard to pigeonhole into the above categories,
15. Bill's comment: "I found it fascinating that Abram's connected with medicine men and women through his slight of hand performances. The fact that he actually got that connection is pretty amazing all by itself. (Can the court jester also be the court wizard?) But not surprising because he is so intent on being "in tune" with his surroundings, whether they be natural or man-made. His application of utilizing the animal level of awareness in all environments reveals a lot about us. The fact that he sensed peoples awareness about him being on par with the highest level spiritual member in a tribe, and not the entertainer takes a great mental leap forward, and is probably lost on most people." <==I think there is a lot to discuss in this comment..so I posted it here to remind me to mention this perpective. I think that I agree with the comment.
Here are some other quotes from the book that I'd like to discuss if there is time. That first quote is also one that might be covered next month in our reading of Quine.
Arrive 5 pm or so for drinks and such, then dinner at 6.
By the way, John has dogs.
The book that we'll discuss is Becoming Animal by David Abram
We are limiting meetings to 8 people now.
Yes RSVP's for the July 16th meeting:
Susan,Earl,John Ruskuski,Joyce,Bill,Julie,Fred, and Travis
I'm accumulating my questions here on this blog. Most of these questions are vague so that the discussion may go in all kinds of directions. I'd still like to maintain the structure of 10 minutes (or less) per topic question if that is OK with everyone.
The first two questions are Bill's questions. The others are mine.
1. The number one question that this book raised for Bill was this: Let's posit that shamanism uses slight of hand and conjuring to create a false sense of some intermediary power over others through careful examination of the physical world (rather than fear of it) and uses that information to maintain a superior position over others in groups of people. Is religion, as it is practiced in western civilization, a direct descendant of fear of the unknown, and therefore one of the all time greatest magic tricks ever?
2. Does modern philosophy suffer from detachment of the observer by virtue of their isolation and insulation from our natural sense of acuity and awareness of the world that surrounds us? Abram's philosophical approach is to connect with his world through the eyes of one who works their hands and mind through their environment rather than an approach that is disconnected or cutoff from his surrounding world by technology. [I think this question is somewhat similar to question # 9 and # 4]
3. Does language help shape our beliefs?
4. Abram asks this question: "Do we really trust that the human mind can maintain its coherence in an exclusively man--made world?" at loc 2041
5. Did you have a hard time discerning when Abram was talking in metaphor and when he was making claims that he believed were truly part of reality? I heard that Plato didn't like poets. Do you feel a benefit to poetry? The metaphors are poetry, yes?
6. Quote from the book: "As soon as we breathe out, letting mind flow back into the field that surrounds us, we feel a new looseness and freedom." This is one example of what prompted my questions # 5 and #14
7. I am interested in what you think of the 'Sleight-of-Hand' chapter especially this sentence (located around 3282 on the Kindle): "I had learned to recognize the impressions, when they arrived, as an inward indication that I was standing close to a magician of unusual depth and strength." [This is similar to Bill's question #1 but different. I was hoping to head in a direction of bazarre experiences we have had in relation to reality]
8. I'd like to discuss this quote which is around loc 3721: "Dance was the improvisational ecstasy that dissolved the crossfire of other people's emotions."
9. I'd like to discuss these three quotes.
loc 4042:"Each thing attentively pondered, gathers our senses together in a unique way."
loc 4192:"The nervous system that seethes within our skin still thirsts for relatively unmediated exchange with reality"
loc 4585: Leave abundant space in our days for an interchange with one another and with our surroundings that is not mediated by technology
10. Do you think this is true: "the human craving for relation with that which exceeds us is as strong as ever" loc [4402]
11. Humans have invented things. Have those inventions made the lives of humans better or worse?
12. Are humans today more or less violent than humans during the days of the Inquisition?
13. I liked his explanation of the difference between Plato's concept of "idea" and Aristotle's concept. Which way do you lean? Is there a pure reality? Or should we be content with what we can observe with our senses? Are my questions falling prey to the logical fallacy of the false dichotomy?
14. Dualism. Are there many different aspects to that concept? I believe that Spinoza didn't like Descartes' dualism (mind/body separation). But I think that Spinoza did think that there was a oneness to all of nature. If you believe in a oneness, then does that make you a dualist of sorts? In other words, could you be considered a dualist if you think there is a substance that connects us all???
from wikipedia:
Monism in philosophy can be defined according to three kinds:
A.Idealism, phenomenalism, or mentalistic monism which holds that only mind is real.
B.Neutral monism, which holds that both the mental and the physical can be reduced to some sort of third substance, or energy.
C.Physicalism or materialism, which holds that only the physical is real, and that the mental or spiritual can be reduced to the physical.
Certain other positions are hard to pigeonhole into the above categories,
15. Bill's comment: "I found it fascinating that Abram's connected with medicine men and women through his slight of hand performances. The fact that he actually got that connection is pretty amazing all by itself. (Can the court jester also be the court wizard?) But not surprising because he is so intent on being "in tune" with his surroundings, whether they be natural or man-made. His application of utilizing the animal level of awareness in all environments reveals a lot about us. The fact that he sensed peoples awareness about him being on par with the highest level spiritual member in a tribe, and not the entertainer takes a great mental leap forward, and is probably lost on most people." <==I think there is a lot to discuss in this comment..so I posted it here to remind me to mention this perpective. I think that I agree with the comment.
Here are some other quotes from the book that I'd like to discuss if there is time. That first quote is also one that might be covered next month in our reading of Quine.
- Highlight Loc. 192-94 As a phenomenologist, I am far too taken with lived experience—with the felt encounter between our sensate body and the animate earth—to suit his philosophical taste. As a metaphysician, Deleuze is far too given to the production of abstract concepts to suit mine.
- Highlight Loc. 507-11 The notion of “projection” fails to account for what it is about certain objects that calls forth our imagination. It implies that the objects we perceive are purely passive phenomena, utterly neutral and inert, and so enables us to overlook the way in which such objects actively affect the space around them—the manner in which material things are also bodies, influencing the other bodies within their ambit, and being influenced in turn.
Of course you certainly may bring your own topic questions related to the book to the meeting. I like organizing my questions in writing here on the blog.
Of course you certainly may bring your own topic questions related to the book to the meeting. I like organizing my questions in writing here on the blog.
Monday, June 6, 2011
Next meeting is July 16th
Next meeting/dinner is July 16th and being held at John Ruskuski's home.
The book that we'll discuss is Becoming Animal by David Abram
We are limiting meetings to 8 people now. Yes RSVP's for the July 16th meeting:
Susan,Earl,John Ruskuski,Joyce,Bill,Julie,Fred, and I think we have the 8th person...don't know his name yet.
______________________________________________________________________
The book for the dinner/meeting in August is From Stimulus to Science by W.V. Quine. The August dinner/meeting will be at Earl's and my home.
We have eight (which is our limit): Susan, Earl, John Ruskuski, Michael F., Nelline, Julie, Harry, Sandy
Here is a description of Quine's book:
http://www.librarything.com/work/330046/descriptions
We may not discuss all the chapters since some of the chapters may be too technical ...unless (of course) we are graced with someone with a PhD in philosophy that understands the more technical meanderings of Quine.
_______________________________________________________________________
If you have a book suggestion for September, please let me know.
The book that we'll discuss is Becoming Animal by David Abram
We are limiting meetings to 8 people now. Yes RSVP's for the July 16th meeting:
Susan,Earl,John Ruskuski,Joyce,Bill,Julie,Fred, and I think we have the 8th person...don't know his name yet.
______________________________________________________________________
The book for the dinner/meeting in August is From Stimulus to Science by W.V. Quine. The August dinner/meeting will be at Earl's and my home.
We have eight (which is our limit): Susan, Earl, John Ruskuski, Michael F., Nelline, Julie, Harry, Sandy
Here is a description of Quine's book:
http://www.librarything.com/work/330046/descriptions
We may not discuss all the chapters since some of the chapters may be too technical ...unless (of course) we are graced with someone with a PhD in philosophy that understands the more technical meanderings of Quine.
_______________________________________________________________________
If you have a book suggestion for September, please let me know.
Tuesday, May 10, 2011
June and July books
We have 8 for the June 5th meeting when we're discussing Pat Churchland's book Brain-Wise:Studies in Neurophilosophy. As you know, we're limiting meetings to 8 people now. These are the 8 people that we have for June 5th: Susan, Earl, Joyce, Bill, Julie, Gary, Michael Fitzgerald, Nelline
John Ruskuski is hosting the July meeting and he tells me that he is a great cook. :-) That meeting will be Saturday July 16th. The book that we'll discuss is Becoming Animal by David Abram. We also already have 8 people for that meeting. If you're interested in either meeting, I can put you on the waiting list in case someone has to drop out. We only have room for 8.
John Ruskuski is hosting the July meeting and he tells me that he is a great cook. :-) That meeting will be Saturday July 16th. The book that we'll discuss is Becoming Animal by David Abram. We also already have 8 people for that meeting. If you're interested in either meeting, I can put you on the waiting list in case someone has to drop out. We only have room for 8.
Friday, May 6, 2011
topic questions for Care of the Soul
Book discussion group is meeting May 8th to discuss the book Care of the Soul by Thomas Moore.
There is a limit of 8. We have 8: Susan,Earl,Michael Nobrega,April,Sandy,Harry,Bill,Joyce
We'll probably only have time for nine of these. I'd like to discuss these quotes from the book.
1. [page 267-loc 3998] The soul is the infinite depth of a person comprising all the many mysterious aspects that go together to make up our identity.
2. [page 286-loc 4274]The emptiness (of which many people complain dominates their lives) comes in part from a failure to let the world in, to perceive it and engage it fully. Art arrests attention, an important service to the soul. Soul cannot thrive in a fast-pace life because being affected (taking things in and chewing on them) requires time. Living artfully, therefore, might require something as simple as pausing. There is no doubt that some people could spare themselves the expense and trouble of psychotherapy simply by giving themselves a few minutes each day for quiet reflection.
3. [page 295-loc 4368] Usually the main problem with life conundrums is that we don't bring to them enough imagination.
4. [page 234-loc3531] fundamentalism....a point of view that can seize any of us about anything. I would define fundamentalism as a defense against the overtones of life. [page 242-loc 3652] If we can get past various fundamentalist attitudes about the spiritual life then many different ways of being spiritual come into view. Fundamentalist attitudes (to avoid) include an attachment to a too simple code of morality, fixed interpretations of stories, and a community in which individual thinking is not prized.
5. [page 8-loc 273] "You work with what is, rather than with what you wish were there.......... Therapy sometimes emphasizes change so strongly that people often neglect their own natures and are tantalized by images of some ideal normality..that may always be out of reach." [page 9-loc 27 "] "find deeper respect for what is actually there"
6. [page 190-loc 2932] The purpose of the vow is to promote community by owning all things in common. What if, as a nation, a city, or a neighborhood, we all took such a vow? We would be striving toward a deep sense of community by feeling ownership of common property.
7. [page 164-loc 2540] Epicurus lived a simple life and taught a philosophy of pleasure. The motto of his Florentine academy was displayed on a banner that read “PLEASURE IN THE PRESENT.” Pleasure does not necessarily refer to the gratification of the senses or the frenzied pursuit of new experiences, possessions, or entertainments. [page 172-loc 2667] You should walk as often as possible among plants that have a wonderful aroma, spending a considerable amount of time every day among such things.
8. [page 210-loc 3183]: "Our retreat from the world may have to be more serious and more constantly present in our lives than a weekly counseling visit or an occasional camping trip." "Parks and gardens could be protected at all costs by a city sensitive to the need of the soul for retreat."
9. [page 171- loc 2648] "Our response to this disease could be to abandon the mass culture of plastic reproductions and recover a sensitivity to things of quality and imagination."
10. [page 17-loc 403] "People seem to be afraid that if they reflect on their moral principles they might lose their ethical sensitivity altogether. But that is a defensive approach to morality.......One who cares for the soul becomes someone at ease with idiosyncrasies and the unexpected."
11. [page 232-loc 3501] Spirituality is not always specifically religious. Mathematics is spiritual in the broad sense, abstracting from the concrete details of life. A walk through the woods on a sunny fall day can be a spiritual activity.
12. [page 284-loc 4252] We don't have to lose pleasure and fun in order to give the soul what it needs, but we do have to give it attention and articulation.
13. [page 5-loc 215] "Care of the soul begins with observance of how the soul manifests itself.....Observing the soul, we keep an eye on the latest addiction, a striking dream, or a troubling mood"
14. [page 204-loc 3105] ....the transformation of ordinary experience into the stuff of soul is all important. The soul feeds on life and digests it, creating wisdom and character out of the fodder of experience.
15. [page 203-loc 3084] The soul thrives on a spirituality such as spirit of the family, arising from traditions and values that have been part of the family for generations.
20. His soulful father idea explained on page 38 (loc 680) didn't ring true to me. I prefer George Lakoff's nurturing parents analogy. In other words I think the idea of the all knowing father is bull.
20.[page 3-loc 194] "....carefully choosing colors, spices, oils, places to walk, countries to visit--all very concrete decisions of everyday life that day by day either support or disturb the soul. ....Ancient psychologiest taught that our own souls are inseparable from the world's soul, and that both are found in all the many things that make up nature and culture."
20.[page 50-loc 858] "Some modern psychologies see the child within as a figure of creativity and spontaneity. But Jung's child is more complex.........if we are going to acknowledge the child and care for this figure, too, without trying to improve upon it, then we have to find a place for wandering, dislocation, and helplessness. These, too, are the child"
20.[page 56-loc 940]Jung explains that when we meet something of the shadow in another, we often feel repulsed.
20.[page 66-loc 1091]When you find tolerance in yourself for the competing demands of the soul, life becomes more complicated, but also more interesting. An example might be the contradictory needs of solitude and social life.
20.[page 78-loc 306] It may be useful to consider love less as an aspect of relationship and more as an event of the soul.
20.[page 93--loc 1504]-The Renaissance humanist Erasmus says in his book In Praise of Folly that people are joined in friendship through their foolishness.
20.[page 120-loc 1889] In spite of its archetypal, universal contents, for each individual the soul is highly idiosyncratic. Power begins in knowing this special soul.
20.[page 146--loc 2295] Because depression is one of the faces of the soul, acknowledging it and bringing it into our relationships fosters intimacy.
20.[page 158-loc 2449] On the whole, however, we have only an unsophisticated understanding of the relationship between a particular physical symptom and the emotions. ....... Listening to the messages of the body is NOT the same as blaming the patient. .......A specialist in disease should begin his questions for diagnosis with issues of pleasure. Are you fighting pleasure somewhere or in some part of your body?
There is a limit of 8. We have 8: Susan,Earl,Michael Nobrega,April,Sandy,Harry,Bill,Joyce
We'll probably only have time for nine of these. I'd like to discuss these quotes from the book.
1. [page 267-loc 3998] The soul is the infinite depth of a person comprising all the many mysterious aspects that go together to make up our identity.
2. [page 286-loc 4274]The emptiness (of which many people complain dominates their lives) comes in part from a failure to let the world in, to perceive it and engage it fully. Art arrests attention, an important service to the soul. Soul cannot thrive in a fast-pace life because being affected (taking things in and chewing on them) requires time. Living artfully, therefore, might require something as simple as pausing. There is no doubt that some people could spare themselves the expense and trouble of psychotherapy simply by giving themselves a few minutes each day for quiet reflection.
3. [page 295-loc 4368] Usually the main problem with life conundrums is that we don't bring to them enough imagination.
4. [page 234-loc3531] fundamentalism....a point of view that can seize any of us about anything. I would define fundamentalism as a defense against the overtones of life. [page 242-loc 3652] If we can get past various fundamentalist attitudes about the spiritual life then many different ways of being spiritual come into view. Fundamentalist attitudes (to avoid) include an attachment to a too simple code of morality, fixed interpretations of stories, and a community in which individual thinking is not prized.
5. [page 8-loc 273] "You work with what is, rather than with what you wish were there.......... Therapy sometimes emphasizes change so strongly that people often neglect their own natures and are tantalized by images of some ideal normality..that may always be out of reach." [page 9-loc 27 "] "find deeper respect for what is actually there"
6. [page 190-loc 2932] The purpose of the vow is to promote community by owning all things in common. What if, as a nation, a city, or a neighborhood, we all took such a vow? We would be striving toward a deep sense of community by feeling ownership of common property.
7. [page 164-loc 2540] Epicurus lived a simple life and taught a philosophy of pleasure. The motto of his Florentine academy was displayed on a banner that read “PLEASURE IN THE PRESENT.” Pleasure does not necessarily refer to the gratification of the senses or the frenzied pursuit of new experiences, possessions, or entertainments. [page 172-loc 2667] You should walk as often as possible among plants that have a wonderful aroma, spending a considerable amount of time every day among such things.
8. [page 210-loc 3183]: "Our retreat from the world may have to be more serious and more constantly present in our lives than a weekly counseling visit or an occasional camping trip." "Parks and gardens could be protected at all costs by a city sensitive to the need of the soul for retreat."
9. [page 171- loc 2648] "Our response to this disease could be to abandon the mass culture of plastic reproductions and recover a sensitivity to things of quality and imagination."
10. [page 17-loc 403] "People seem to be afraid that if they reflect on their moral principles they might lose their ethical sensitivity altogether. But that is a defensive approach to morality.......One who cares for the soul becomes someone at ease with idiosyncrasies and the unexpected."
11. [page 232-loc 3501] Spirituality is not always specifically religious. Mathematics is spiritual in the broad sense, abstracting from the concrete details of life. A walk through the woods on a sunny fall day can be a spiritual activity.
12. [page 284-loc 4252] We don't have to lose pleasure and fun in order to give the soul what it needs, but we do have to give it attention and articulation.
13. [page 5-loc 215] "Care of the soul begins with observance of how the soul manifests itself.....Observing the soul, we keep an eye on the latest addiction, a striking dream, or a troubling mood"
14. [page 204-loc 3105] ....the transformation of ordinary experience into the stuff of soul is all important. The soul feeds on life and digests it, creating wisdom and character out of the fodder of experience.
15. [page 203-loc 3084] The soul thrives on a spirituality such as spirit of the family, arising from traditions and values that have been part of the family for generations.
20. His soulful father idea explained on page 38 (loc 680) didn't ring true to me. I prefer George Lakoff's nurturing parents analogy. In other words I think the idea of the all knowing father is bull.
20.[page 3-loc 194] "....carefully choosing colors, spices, oils, places to walk, countries to visit--all very concrete decisions of everyday life that day by day either support or disturb the soul. ....Ancient psychologiest taught that our own souls are inseparable from the world's soul, and that both are found in all the many things that make up nature and culture."
20.[page 50-loc 858] "Some modern psychologies see the child within as a figure of creativity and spontaneity. But Jung's child is more complex.........if we are going to acknowledge the child and care for this figure, too, without trying to improve upon it, then we have to find a place for wandering, dislocation, and helplessness. These, too, are the child"
20.[page 56-loc 940]Jung explains that when we meet something of the shadow in another, we often feel repulsed.
20.[page 66-loc 1091]When you find tolerance in yourself for the competing demands of the soul, life becomes more complicated, but also more interesting. An example might be the contradictory needs of solitude and social life.
20.[page 78-loc 306] It may be useful to consider love less as an aspect of relationship and more as an event of the soul.
20.[page 93--loc 1504]-The Renaissance humanist Erasmus says in his book In Praise of Folly that people are joined in friendship through their foolishness.
20.[page 120-loc 1889] In spite of its archetypal, universal contents, for each individual the soul is highly idiosyncratic. Power begins in knowing this special soul.
20.[page 146--loc 2295] Because depression is one of the faces of the soul, acknowledging it and bringing it into our relationships fosters intimacy.
20.[page 158-loc 2449] On the whole, however, we have only an unsophisticated understanding of the relationship between a particular physical symptom and the emotions. ....... Listening to the messages of the body is NOT the same as blaming the patient. .......A specialist in disease should begin his questions for diagnosis with issues of pleasure. Are you fighting pleasure somewhere or in some part of your body?
Tuesday, March 22, 2011
Elbow Room-The Varieties of Free Will Worth Wanting by Daniel C. Dennett
Elbow Room-The Varieties of Free Will Worth Wanting by Daniel C. Dennett
YES rsvp’s: Earl, Susan, Joyce, Bill, Julie, Gary, Fred, Michael F. , John R.
Meeting is full unless someone drops out. It is dinner at Bill and Joyce's home on April 9th.
If we have nine topic questions at 10 minutes each, the meeting will last for approximately an hour and a half. So if we want to keep the discussion to 1.5 hours then I need to reduce these down to nine topic questions:
1. [pages 5-8] He starts out asking us these questions:
a. Are we in a prison?
b. Are we controlled by a puppeteer?
c. Are we like the dog on a leash?
2. [pages 11 & 23-26] Are we like the Digger Wasp?
3. [page 21] What do you think of teleology?
4. [page 53] Did you like his model airplane example? We have degrees of freedom.
5. [page 63] I think this is the major point of the book: free will is in the planning. The smarter you are, the better you can plan.
6. [Pages 64-65] Do the media manipulate us? What can we do about it?
7. [page 78] Do you think we witness the arrival of the decision?
8. [page 85] Do you like the example of the manufacturer as to why we hold people responsible?
9. [page 104-105] Determinism is not fatalism.
10. [page 167] Thinking ahead is better than remorse.
What do you think of these sentences (quotes from the book):
11. [page 28] Brains are meaning manipulators and information processors.
12. [page 45] So although we arrive on this planet with a built-in biologically endorsed set of biases, although we innately prefer certain states of affairs to others, we can nevertheless build lives from this base that overthrow those innate preferences.
13. [page 72] We would like to be as immune as possible from manipulation and dirty tricks and as sensitive as possible to harbingers of future vicissitudes that might cause us to alter course in the right ways—so that we can face the world with as much elbow room as we can get.
14. [page 87-88] “the over examined life is nothing to write home about either”
15. [page 108] “..the deliberator must have the capacity ….to foresee the causal milieu into which it will soon pass. And it must foresee this reliably, swiftly and accurately.”
16. [pages 158-159] “We are no angels…..In an ideal world, it seems, everyone would see the right thing and do it.”
17. [page 162] “holding people responsible is the best game in town.”
18. [page 168] You have to believe you have free will before you can have it. Even if free will isn’t true, it is a life enhancing illusion.
YES rsvp’s: Earl, Susan, Joyce, Bill, Julie, Gary, Fred, Michael F. , John R.
Meeting is full unless someone drops out. It is dinner at Bill and Joyce's home on April 9th.
If we have nine topic questions at 10 minutes each, the meeting will last for approximately an hour and a half. So if we want to keep the discussion to 1.5 hours then I need to reduce these down to nine topic questions:
1. [pages 5-8] He starts out asking us these questions:
a. Are we in a prison?
b. Are we controlled by a puppeteer?
c. Are we like the dog on a leash?
2. [pages 11 & 23-26] Are we like the Digger Wasp?
3. [page 21] What do you think of teleology?
4. [page 53] Did you like his model airplane example? We have degrees of freedom.
5. [page 63] I think this is the major point of the book: free will is in the planning. The smarter you are, the better you can plan.
6. [Pages 64-65] Do the media manipulate us? What can we do about it?
7. [page 78] Do you think we witness the arrival of the decision?
8. [page 85] Do you like the example of the manufacturer as to why we hold people responsible?
9. [page 104-105] Determinism is not fatalism.
10. [page 167] Thinking ahead is better than remorse.
What do you think of these sentences (quotes from the book):
11. [page 28] Brains are meaning manipulators and information processors.
12. [page 45] So although we arrive on this planet with a built-in biologically endorsed set of biases, although we innately prefer certain states of affairs to others, we can nevertheless build lives from this base that overthrow those innate preferences.
13. [page 72] We would like to be as immune as possible from manipulation and dirty tricks and as sensitive as possible to harbingers of future vicissitudes that might cause us to alter course in the right ways—so that we can face the world with as much elbow room as we can get.
14. [page 87-88] “the over examined life is nothing to write home about either”
15. [page 108] “..the deliberator must have the capacity ….to foresee the causal milieu into which it will soon pass. And it must foresee this reliably, swiftly and accurately.”
16. [pages 158-159] “We are no angels…..In an ideal world, it seems, everyone would see the right thing and do it.”
17. [page 162] “holding people responsible is the best game in town.”
18. [page 168] You have to believe you have free will before you can have it. Even if free will isn’t true, it is a life enhancing illusion.
Sunday, March 13, 2011
April, May and June books
For April 9th meeting, we are reading and discussing Elbow Room by Daniel Dennett. That meeting is already full unless someone drops out. Earl, Susan, Michael F., Joyce, Bill, Gary, Julie, John R.,Fred
For May 8th meeting, we are reading and discussing Care of the Soul by Thomas Moore (recent article in Huffington Post by Moore ). Right now, we have six people attending. I'm not sure if we're limiting that meeting to six or to eight. Earl, Susan, Michael N., April, Sandy, Harry. We're meeting a Sunday evening at the Cabana Club.
After that I'd like to read Brain-Wise: Studies in Neurophilosophy by Pat Churchland. The two books mentioned (above) have sparked my interest in neurophilosophy. So I really really want to read this book next. I have already read the first few pages and I think it will be an easy and fun read.
Maybe after that ....if people want to read and discuss....we could ........read and discuss.... Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein.
Putting Care of the Soul on the list arose from a conversation with Earl. I am really enjoying the book. I don't think that an atheist (or naturalist) should have a problem with the book. Perhaps he/she could just substitute the word psyche for the word soul if the word soul gives him/her a problem.
Some other books that I'd like to read:
1.Sarah Bakewell is on philosophy bites this month talking about Montaigne. I'd like to read one of her books on Montaigne.
2. 'The Pursuit of Unhappiness: The Elusive Psychology of Well-being' by Daniel M. Haybron
3. 'The Wisdom of Crowds' by James Surowiecki
4. 'The Logic of Scientific Discovery' by Karl Popper
5. Capital (Das Kapital) by Karl Marx
For May 8th meeting, we are reading and discussing Care of the Soul by Thomas Moore (recent article in Huffington Post by Moore ). Right now, we have six people attending. I'm not sure if we're limiting that meeting to six or to eight. Earl, Susan, Michael N., April, Sandy, Harry. We're meeting a Sunday evening at the Cabana Club.
After that I'd like to read Brain-Wise: Studies in Neurophilosophy by Pat Churchland. The two books mentioned (above) have sparked my interest in neurophilosophy. So I really really want to read this book next. I have already read the first few pages and I think it will be an easy and fun read.
Maybe after that ....if people want to read and discuss....we could ........read and discuss.... Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein.
Putting Care of the Soul on the list arose from a conversation with Earl. I am really enjoying the book. I don't think that an atheist (or naturalist) should have a problem with the book. Perhaps he/she could just substitute the word psyche for the word soul if the word soul gives him/her a problem.
Some other books that I'd like to read:
1.Sarah Bakewell is on philosophy bites this month talking about Montaigne. I'd like to read one of her books on Montaigne.
2. 'The Pursuit of Unhappiness: The Elusive Psychology of Well-being' by Daniel M. Haybron
3. 'The Wisdom of Crowds' by James Surowiecki
4. 'The Logic of Scientific Discovery' by Karl Popper
5. Capital (Das Kapital) by Karl Marx
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